Q: The comparative religion study, how do you think about Hinduism?
Do you think Hinduism is related to Abrahamic religions?
Because I have a crazy opinion and thought about it before, that both religion probably related with the golden calf statue created by Samiri (from the story of Moses), with Hinduism believe that calf is a holy animal within their religion..
How do you think about this thought? Is it possible?
A: It is rather possible that a sect grew from the calf, however the Vedas, which are some of the first Hindu scriptures revealed 1500BC also teaches that there is only one God with no partners and this God has no images.
What happened is that human authors came after and corrupted this decree and today some Hindus believe in 1’000’s of god’s due to human intervention and deceit;
“Ekam evadvitiyam”
“He is One only without a second.” [Chandogya Upanishad 6:2:1]1
“Na casya kascij janita na cadhipah.”
“Of Him there are neither parents nor lord.” [Svetasvatara Upanishad 6:9]
“Na tasya pratima asti”
“There is no likeness of Him.” [Svetasvatara Upanishad 4:19].
Q: According to [20:97] Samiri was excommunicated from the rest of bani israil by Moses, and stated that he’s still manage to worship the calf as his god even so.
Just wondering if after this moment, samiri and perhaps with his followers gone to somewhere elseand corrupting the message from the former messenger of certain area (hindustan for example) and the spread his teaching about what so called religion by him..
I have also have a thought that perhaps the former ages of Isa (Jesus) was spent somewhere around there, to purify the tradition i to the correct message.
But this is just a wild guess 🤭
A: It is a rather interesting topic, and certainly reading Tefsir may give you some direction to further study.
I have composed a short article on the time during which Jesus (pbuh) lived and the beliefs that were held by other pagans;
Timothy Freke & Peter Gandy, in their work “The Jesus Mysteries.”, argue that the early Christians and Pagans shared many rituals and practices. They argue that many of the early Christian practices incorporated Pagan sources and that Christian practices might have actually been picked up by the Mithraites.
During the 3rd century CE, Mithraism and Christianity were the main competitors for the religious affiliation of Roman citizens.
According M.J. Vermaseren, in his work “Mithras, the Secret God”; Mithraism, was a prominent growing religion said to be instituted 1 BCE, where followers worshipped the Indo-Iranian deity Mithras as the god of friendship, contract and order.
He argues that this religious cult was dominant in 1st century CE and grew at an extraordinary pace. This religion spread from the Italian Peninsula and border regions across the whole of the Roman Empire and more than 200 temples have been discovered today.
When we examine this history we discover that the rituals of Christianity coincide with the earlier rituals of Mithraism, including the Eucharist and Communion in great detail. The religious language used by Mithraism became the language used by Christians.
The idea of a sacrificed saviour is a Mithraist belief, so is the symbolism of bulls, rams, sheep, the blood of a transformed saviour washing away sins and granting eternal life.
Before we delve into some of these rituals found in Mithraism, I would like to talk about the man who is often called ‘the first Christian’ as we understand the term Christianity today;
According to Timothy Freke & Peter Gandy, this man (‘the first Christian’) was born as Saul of Tarsus in Tarsus, a major centre of Mithraism and he bears much of the responsibility for molding Mithraism into Christianity. Later Roman Emperors, Mithraist then Christian, mixed the rituals and laws of both religions into one. For example; Emperor Constantine established 25th of December, the birth date of Mithras, to be the birth date of Jesus. The principal day of worship of the Jews, The Sabbath, was replaced by the Mithraistic ‘Sun Day’ as the Christian holy day. The Catholic Church, based in Rome and founded on top of the most venerated Mithraist temple, wiped out all competing son-of-god religions within the Roman Empire, giving us modern literalist Christianity.
Scholars have examined and discussed these co-existing rituals between Mithraism and Christianity in great detail;
To give some examples of this;
Baptism by Water: Many god-man cults involved baptism by water; from the sprinkling of holy water to full immersion. “In the mysteries of Mithras initiates underwent repeated baptisms to wash away their sins. Such initiations took place in March or April, at exactly the same time that in later centuries Christians also baptized their new converts, called ‘catechumens’.
Communion: Alfred Reynolds, in his work “Jesus Versus Christianity” writes that; the adherents of Mithras believed that Mithras would undergo a transformation into a bull or ram, Mithras would then be killed and his flesh and blood would be consumed by the faithful. Through eating the bull’s flesh and drinking its blood they would be born again, just as life itself has been created anew from the blood of the bull. Participation in this rite would give not only physical strength but lead to the immortality of the soul and to eternal light.”
Resurrection: “In the Mysteries of Mithras initiates enacted a similar resurrection scene. Having accomplished his mission on Earth, Mithras was said to have ascended to heaven in a sun-chariot. Like Jesus, who sits at the right hand of [God, Mithras was] enthroned by the god of light as ruler of the world [and is] waiting in heaven for the End of Time, when he would return to Earth to awaken the dead and pass judgment”
As Christianity developed and especially as it flourished amongst the poor and illiterate, its mythological roots in Greek and Mesopotamian myths were forgotten. They came under criticism from the other pagans of the Roman Empire, who ridiculed Christians for stealing – copying – pagan beliefs and then claiming them to be unique. Early Church Fathers, such as Tertullian tries to defend Christianity by arguing that it was The Devil who pre-emotively created Mithraism and other god-man religions, in order to discredit Christianity!
Tertullian writes;
“The devil, whose business is to pervert the truth, mimics the exact circumstances of the Divine Sacraments. He baptises his believers and promises forgiveness of sins from the Sacred Fount, and thereby initiates them into the religion of Mithras. Thus he celebrates the oblation of bread, and brings in the symbol of the resurrection.”
Q : I agreed that most of the ritual in Christianity derived from someone else but Jesus. My opinion is Saul using the name of Jesus, and render it into new religion we call now Christianity. He is the first christian, I do agree with that.
Saul(ism) is rising after Jesus is not around anymore
The Veda is considered most superior. And if one speaks to a well educated Hindu who studies the most original text they would proclaim that there is only one God without a second and that this God has no images.
You are most correct, Mohammad (pbuh) is mentioned in the Veda, his father’s name, mothers name is also mentioned. It is furthermore mentioned that this person will get revelation from within a cave, etc. there are many references to him.
C: Which one the better source of Hinduism teaching Veda, Upanishad , Bhagavad Gita?
I had live in Bali for 6 years, I have had attend Brahma Kumaris classes also. And attend Budhism class also but I do not have a chance to join Vipasana meditation.
Hindust in Bali, the common people never learn Vedas. Only the high caste and priest who read vedas. Therefore common Hindust only practice their hinduism by culture.
And I do agree with your statement. Indeed in Hindust itself believe in 1 God, Sang Hyang Widi. And the deitis Shiva, Wisnu, etc only a depiction of characteristics of the 1 God. In ordrr the character of God not angry the present the offering and ceremony.
Futhermore, the more depht Hindust person said to me that in Vedas there is a depiction of Muhammad as one last messenger that will lead the world.
And there is theory also during Yesus unexplanaition gap year, he was went to Hindustand to learn theology
Q :Yes, and also in the Quran, Jesus mentioned that there will be someone else come after him as a messenger. The name is Ahmad [61:6].
Veda mentioned about the same person as well.
I think the former/original believe in Hindustan is still tauheed (one God, many messengers). And perhaps the former years of Jesus was spent to try purify it?
The same mentioned in many kitaab from Allah. As Torah from Moses and Zabur from David/Solomon mentioned it as well.
A: I do not know of any reference where Jesus (pbuh) attempted to purify the Hindu belief. According to the Quran (61:6) and Gospel (Matthew 15:24) he was only sent to the people of Israel.
C:Agree, therefore the priest of Hindust keep for themselves the truth. Hence the congregation of Hindust religion still exist until now. And only gullible people who never try to think about the essence of God will be remain on their religion bought by their parents. This one I found as the fact either Muslim, Christian, Hindust, Budhism, Taoism,Jew follower do. They never critize their parents religion. In the contrary the people who do not want dictated by their parents belief, they make soul searching and questioning their existence in life. But since God only enlighted the person that God would like to enlight with. Some of those people turn to be atheist or agnostics. I have met a lot of european that is atheist or agnostics.
Back to discussion about Hinduism, when the priest know that there is only 1 God in hindust and what the Hinduism ritual that their follower conducted was wrong why they are quiet about it. Do this priest not afraid with God since if they make people follow wrong direction, they the ones who will be responsible in after life judgement, with additional belief or reborn/reincarnation.
Indeed, thats why nowadays European has growing number of atheist and agnostics since these people found a lot of contradiction in between Bible it self and as the additional of Chruch ritual.
From these Chruch ritual, it happen also to appear the Illuminati and anti-Christ. Regarding this matter, I am lost and confuse.
Q: [20:32, 5/6/2019] Yes, it’s correct Jesus came for the bani Israil. I do agree with it also.
Across in my mind thati f the people of Samiri truly get to Hindustan about some generations ago and married with locals and create the new generations of israil there, then maybe it’s possible if some of the people there also part of descendant of Israil (bani israil)
Just curious because since Jesus still a baby, he already talk much [19:30-34] and the suddenly silent for many years after, and then detected again within around thirtieth years of his age 🤭
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unknown_years_of_Jesus
I don’t know if it’s good enough to become proof of this theory, but it maybe useful as a reference?
C: In my opinion, since I do not have a chance to look on the historian fact finding including scientific journal.
It is better to find reference of some fact finding, i.e:
LINGUISTIC = how the linguis correlation betwen herbew, sanskrit, hindi, urdi ==> here we need to know the root of the language.
INHABITANT = which one oldest Hindu (Arya India) or Jew whose refugee fron Egypt in Pharaoh era.
Knowing this fact, we can moving forward into theory.
With my current knowledge, I do agree on the theory of Jesus might had been made a traveling and study. On the basis that Veda and Budhism is related to Oneness of God.
However, the relation between Zabur, Torah => Veda, Tripitaka => Injil => Quran -> this need further study.
Considering in Indonesia common teaching conducted by school teacher of Islam religion, they are believe to theory that Abrahamavic religion (Bible,Quran) vs Earth religion (Veda).
In my mature thought, it is impossible for human being able to grasp the concept of Oneness God without epiphany outsource from God himself. Therefore Veda is valid if we are excluding the corruption ritual conducted by current Hindust
A: The Veda has some revelation that is in accordance to the Decrees of Allah, however there is a lot of references that go against the Decrees of Allah.
This can be said to all other revelations other than the Holy Quran. In the other revelations the traces of human error and the ills of men is well established in history.
I would advise you compose a mission statement, for instance; “I want to ascertain if (__) can be support by accredited scholarly references. And if it cannot be support it means that (__).”
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